crucifixion & resurrection: the crucifixion & resurrection of Christ
06/03/01
psycho314t: alright, lets study the time after the resurrection
jello13091: When Jesus was resurrected, and I think it was Mary and the others who saw Him, was He still in human form, or did He take on a new appearance?
jello13091: I remember reading that Mary did not recognize Him
psycho314t: yeah, i remember that too..
psycho314t: maybe they were kept from recognizing Him at first tho
jello13091: Do you know what chapters and verses this would be in?
psycho314t: towards the end of the 4 gospels, dunno exact verses
jello13091: Luke 24 maybe
psycho314t: lets see.. starts in matt 28
psycho314t: hmm.. yup. seems to be the last chapter of each book
jello13091: Luke 24:16
jello13091: But their eyes were holden that they should not know Him.
psycho314t: their eyes were holden..
jello13091: Cleopas asked if He was a stranger and didn't know
psycho314t: Mark:16:9: Now when Jesus was risen early the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had cast seven devils.
Mark:16:10: And she went and told them that had been with him, as they mourned and wept.
Mark:16:11: And they, when they had heard that he was alive, and had been seen of her, believed not.
Mark:16:12: After that he appeared in another form unto two of them, as they walked, and went into the country.
jello13091: And then i think that after He was with them, He showed He hands and feet and they saw who He was
psycho314t: "in another form"?
psycho314t: yeah, i remember that
jello13091: I think it was an angel who told MAry that Jesus was not there...mark 16:5-6
psycho314t: yeah
jello13091: Maybe He appeared like His human form and then where it says "in another form" He could have transformed or soemthing
psycho314t: hmm..
jello13091: I got from somewhere, it may have been the chatroom, that the resurrected Christ was still in human form with scars and stuff
psycho314t: yeah, im pretty sure thats scriptural
jello13091: When He was resurrected, He hadn't ascended yet, right?
jello13091: He appeared and then He ascended?
psycho314t: right.. He sent the women to tell the disciples He would come find them, and then He ascended to make sure He had been accepted as the sacrifice
jello13091: And something else to keep in mind, is that no man can withstand the glory of God.
jello13091: Once the disciples saw Him resurrected, they were changed
jello13091: Like their faith was much stronger and they believed and ...
psycho314t: was that when He gave them the power to heal, etc?
jello13091: I think so.
psycho314t: Luke:24:45: Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,
psycho314t: Luke:24:36: And as they thus spake, Jesus himself stood in the midst of them, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.
Luke:24:37: But they were terrified and affrighted, and supposed that they had seen a spirit.
Luke:24:38: And he said unto them, Why are ye troubled? and why do thoughts arise in your hearts?
Luke:24:39: Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.
jello13091: That would only make it seem logical then, that after He ascended and came back down, He had a different appearance.
psycho314t: He was still human tho
psycho314t: and He showed them His hands & feet, suggesting the crucifixion scars...
jello13091: ok
jello13091: yeah
jello13091: But then why would they not have been able to easily recognize Him?
psycho314t: they were kept from knowing
psycho314t: that one verse said their eyes were 'holden'
jello13091: ahh yes
psycho314t: ah, and then this one.. Luke:24:31: And their eyes were opened, and they knew him; and he vanished out of their sight.
jello13091: but wait, Mary then went and told people and then it said Jesus was in the mist and they were afraid
jello13091: Luke 24:51
jello13091: ..he was parted from the,. and carried up into Heaven
psycho314t: that was when He went to stay, probably
jello13091: Luke 24:31 then Luke 24:39
jello13091: He left and then went back and said the stuff about His hands and feet
psycho314t: hmm
jello13091: at biblestudy, it says Corinthians 15 is the resurrection chapter
jello13091: But i dont think it tells us what we want to know
psycho314t: john 20:17-19 talks about Him ascending.. but it leaves out the part about Him walking with the group that didn't know who He was
jello13091: Ok so we know that the peoples' eyes were held "shut" so that the couldn;t recognize Jesus when He was resurrected
jello13091: then at some point the were opened and then He ascended.
jello13091: right?
psycho314t: unless He ascended between the time He talked to mary magdalene and the time He walked with the group
psycho314t: look at mark
psycho314t: it starts out saying the 3 women came to the sepulchre
psycho314t: verse 9 says He appeared to mary magdalene, and verse 12 says He appeared "in another form to two of them as they walked, and went into the country"
psycho314t: and then.. one of the other chapters says that in the group of people He walked with, some of the women had been at the sepulchre
jello13091: ok verse 9
psycho314t: Luke:24:22: Yea, and certain women also of our company made us astonished, which were early at the sepulchre;
jello13091: notice the "Now when Jesus was risen early the first day of the week....."
jello13091: Would that have been sometime after the three women were at the sepulchre and after they went and told people what they had heard?
jello13091: What do you think He looked like at different times?
jello13091: It would seem weird for Him to haev a Heavenly image/body before He ascended expecially if He ascended to make sure that He as the sacrifice was accepted.
psycho314t: that verse says "He appeared first to mary magdalene".. sounds to me like it was while she was still at the sepulchre.. because she was weeping and thought He was the gardener
jello13091: ok
psycho314t: i think she's the one that thought He was the gardener
psycho314t: and i have no idea what He might have looked like
jello13091: I think that if He had glory around Him and was heavenly, it seems like they would be able to tell that He was at least soemthing different. Although it did said their eyes were held....
psycho314t: yeah.. i dunno. but i just found stuff about Jesus & the wavesheaf offering
jello13091: what does it say?
psycho314t: Christ arose from the dead as the first fruits of those that slept. He was the antitype of the wave sheaf, and His resurrection took place on
Page 786
the very day when the wave sheaf was to be presented before the Lord. For more than a thousand years this symbolic ceremony had been performed. From the harvest fields the first heads of ripened grain were gathered, and when the people went up to Jerusalem to the Passover, the sheaf of first fruits was waved as a thank offering before the Lord. Not until this was presented could the sickle be put to the grain, and it be gathered into sheaves. The sheaf dedicated to God represented the harvest. So Christ the first fruits represented the great spiritual harvest to be gathered for the kingdom of God.
jello13091: brb
psycho314t: k
jello13091: back
psycho314t: wb
psycho314t: maybe you were right about mark 16:9 being after the women had come & gone..
iwillgonow: Notice the proof in the above exerpt corrolating the resurrection of Jesus with the Wavesheaf offering, and that they both occured on the first day of the week, which means that Pentecost would also be on the first day of the week, every time.
jello13091: so the women sat there just waited for the Sabbath to end
jello13091: ?
jello13091: and that proves Biblestudy wrong
jello13091: The women had not all come to the tomb from the same direction. Mary Magdalene was the first to reach the place; and upon seeing that the stone was removed, she hurried away to tell the disciples.
psycho314t: yeah, they wanted to annoint His body but couldnt go out until after sabbath
psycho314t: ya
jello13091: As they lingered about the place, suddenly they saw that they were not alone. A young man clothed in shining garments was sitting by the tomb. It was the angel who had rolled away the stone. He had taken the guise of humanity that he
Page 789
might not alarm these friends of Jesus
jello13091: Another angel in human form is there, and he says, "Why seek ye the living among the dead? He is not here, but is risen: remember how He spake unto you when He was yet in Galilee, saying, The Son of man must be delivered into the hands of sinful men, and be crucified, and the third day rise again."
jello13091: Mary had not heard the good news. She went to Peter and John with the sorrowful message, "They have taken away the Lord out of the sepulcher, and we know not where they have laid Him."
jello13091: I didn;t know that..
jello13091: Looking in, she saw the two angels, one at the head and
Page 790
the other at the foot where Jesus had lain. "Woman, why weepest thou?" they asked her. "Because they have taken away my Lord," she answered, "and I know not where they have laid Him."
psycho314t: yeah, they thought the body had been stollen
psycho314t: stolen*
jello13091: I always thought it was Jesus who asked Mary why she was crying!
psycho314t: read the next paragraph
jello13091: ok, it was asked two different times, but two different people
psycho314t: ya
jello13091: In the garden, Mary had stood weeping, when Jesus was close beside her. Her eyes were so blinded by tears that she did not discern Him
jello13091: ok I think that He wasn't in a Heavenly form just yet before He ascended.
psycho314t: right..
jello13091: Then, when He came back to talk to His disciples, He had a different form
jello13091: Jacob, what do you think so far???
jello13091: Is just doesn't seem logical for Jesus to already have a heavenly appearance, before He had ascended into heaven to make sure that He as the sacrifice was accepted.
psycho314t: right.. when God told Him the sacrifice was accepted, Jesus was given all power and glory over heaven and earth, then came back to give it to His disciples
jello13091: yeah
jello13091: Jacob?????
iwillgonow: Why are you searching for the look of His appearance from the time He was resurrected until His final ascension?
jello13091: Because we want to know if He was still in human form at that time
iwillgonow: He will forever retain His human form.
jello13091: How many ascesions did He have?
iwillgonow: 2.
jello13091: Well, i was thinking just from His resurrection to the first ascension
iwillgonow: Human form, as He has to this very day, and forevermore.
jello13091: If He always retains His human form, did He still have like a ring of glory and light around Him?
iwillgonow: No, His full glory must be vailed from human sight.
jello13091: ok that is why i was thinking that He couldn;t have been with all that glory before His ascension (the first one)
iwillgonow: Read the entire chapter on the resurrection in Desire of Ages, and it will answer all these questions.
jello13091: Which chapter?
jello13091: 81 or 82?
psycho314t: we were also trying to figure out exactly when the first ascension was
iwillgonow: Starting at chapter 80.
psycho314t: after He spoke to mary magdalene or when He disappeared from the disciples sight?
jello13091: ok, give us a bit to read it.
psycho314t: ive been reading..
psycho314t: havent found the answer to that part tho
jello13091: I read 82 but not the previous ones
iwillgonow: But it was not the spear thrust, it was not the pain of the cross, that caused the death of Jesus. That cry, uttered "with a loud voice" (Matt. 27:50; Luke 23:46), at the moment of death, the stream of blood and water that flowed from His side, declared that He died of a broken heart. His heart was broken by mental anguish. He was slain by the sin of the world.
iwillgonow: With the death of Christ the hopes of His disciples perished. They looked upon His closed eyelids and drooping head, His hair matted with blood, His pierced hands and feet, and their anguish was indescribable. Until the last they had not believed that He would die; they could hardly believe that He was really dead. Overwhelmed with sorrow, they did not recall His words foretelling this very scene. Nothing that He had said now gave them comfort. They saw only the cross and its bleeding Victim. The future seemed dark with despair. Their faith in Jesus had perished; but never had they loved their Lord as now. Never before had they so felt His worth, and their need of His presence.
iwillgonow: Even in death, Christ's body was very precious to His disciples. They longed to give Him an honored burial, but knew not how to accomplish
773
this. Treason against the Roman government was the crime for which Jesus was condemned, and persons put to death for this offense were consigned to a burial ground especially provided for such criminals. The disciple John with the women from Galilee had remained at the cross. They could not leave the body of their Lord to be handled by the unfeeling soldiers, and buried in a dishonored grave. Yet they could not prevent it. They could obtain no favors from the Jewish authorities, and they had no influence with Pilate.
iwillgonow: In this emergency, Joseph of Arimathaea and Nicodemus came to the help of the disciples. Both these men were members of the Sanhedrin, and were acquainted with Pilate. Both were men of wealth and influence. They were determined that the body of Jesus should have an honorable burial.
jello13091: wow
jello13091: Thus in the offering of the Lamb of God was fulfilled the law of the Passover, "They shall leave none of it unto the morning, nor break any bone of it: according to all the ordinances of the Passover they shall keep it." Num. 9:12
jello13091: Jesus was taken down that night and His legs were not broken
iwillgonow: Neither Joseph nor Nicodemus had openly accepted the Saviour while He was living. They knew that such a step would exclude them from the Sanhedrin, and they hoped to protect Him by their influence in its councils. For a time they had seemed to succeed; but the wily priests, seeing their favor to Christ, had thwarted their plans. In their absence Jesus had been condemned and delivered to be crucified. Now that He was dead, they no longer concealed their attachment to Him.
iwillgonow: Gently and reverently they removed with their own hands the body of Jesus from the cross. Their tears of sympathy fell fast as they looked upon His bruised and lacerated form. Joseph owned a new tomb, hewn in a rock. This he was reserving for himself; but it was near Calvary, and he now prepared it for Jesus.
iwillgonow: While the evening shades were gathering, Mary Magdalene and the other Marys lingered about the resting place of their Lord, shedding tears of sorrow over the fate of Him whom they loved. "And they returned, . . . and rested the Sabbath day according to the commandment." Luke 23:56.
iwillgonow: At the setting of the sun on the evening of the preparation day the trumpets sounded, signifying that the Sabbath had begun. The Passover was observed as it had been for centuries, while He to whom it pointed had been slain by wicked hands, and lay in Joseph's tomb. On the Sabbath the courts of the temple were filled with worshipers. The high priest from Golgotha was there, splendidly robed in his sacerdotal garments. White-turbaned priests, full of activity, performed their duties. But some present were not at rest as the blood of bulls and goats was offered for sin. They were not conscious that type had met antitype, that an infinite sacrifice had been made for the sins of the world. They knew not that there was no further value in the performance of the ritual service.
iwillgonow: no further value in the performance of the ritual service.
iwillgonow: type had met antitype
iwillgonow: Fulfillment.
psycho314t: yeah...
iwillgonow: One after another inquired about a strange event that had taken place. Hitherto the most holy place had been sacredly guarded from intrusion. But now it was open to all eyes. The heavy veil of tapestry, made of pure linen, and beautifully wrought with gold, scarlet, and purple, was rent from top to bottom. The place where Jehovah had met with the high priest, to communicate His glory, the place that had been God's sacred audience chamber, lay open to every eye,--a place no longer recognized by the Lord. With gloomy presentiments the priests ministered before the altar. The uncovering of the sacred mystery of the most holy place filled them with dread of coming calamity.
iwillgonow: Many minds were busy with thoughts started by the scenes of Calvary. From the crucifixion to the resurrection many sleepless eyes were constantly searching the prophecies, some to learn the full meaning of the feast they were then celebrating, some to find evidence that Jesus was not what He claimed to be; and others with sorrowful hearts were searching for proofs that He was the true Messiah. Though searching with different objects in view, all were convicted of the same truth,--that prophecy had been fulfilled in the events of the past few days, and that the Crucified One was the world's Redeemer.
iwillgonow: Many who at that time united in the service never again took part in the paschal rites. Many even of the priests were convicted of the true character of Jesus. Their searching of the prophecies had not been in vain, and after His resurrection they acknowledged Him as the Son of God.
jello13091: Without Christ, the earth was blackness and darkness.
psycho314t: The revenge which the priests had thought would be so sweet was already bitterness to them.
jello13091: Are we coming to that again.. blackness and darkness since so many don't believe in Jesus?
jello13091: By men of intellect these priests and rulers were called upon to explain the prophecies of the Old Testament concerning the Messiah, and while trying to frame some falsehood in reply, they became like men insane. The prophecies that pointed to Christ's sufferings and death they could not explain, and many inquirers were convinced that the Scriptures had been fulfilled.
iwillgonow: Nicodemus, when he saw Jesus lifted up on the cross, remembered His words spoken by night in the Mount of Olives: "As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have eternal life." John 3:14, 15.
iwillgonow: Never had Christ attracted the attention of the multitude as now that He was laid in the tomb. According to their practice, the people brought their sick and suffering ones to the temple courts, inquiring, Who can tell us of Jesus of Nazareth? Many had come from far to find Him who had healed the sick and raised the dead. On every side was heard the cry, We want Christ the Healer!
jello13091: Now that the frenzy of excitement was past, the image of Christ would intrude upon their minds. They beheld Him as He stood serene and uncomplaining before His enemies, suffering without a murmur their taunts and abuse. All the events of His trial and crucifixion came back to them with an overpowering conviction that He was the Son of God. They felt that He might at any time stand before them, the accused to become the accuser, the condemned to condemn, the slain to demand justice in the death of His murderers.
iwillgonow: With persistent earnestness they asked for Him. They would not be turned away. But they were driven from the temple courts, and soldiers were stationed at the gates to keep back the multitude that came with their sick and dying, demanding entrance.
iwillgonow: The sufferers who had come to be healed by the Saviour sank under their disappointment. The streets were filled with mourning. The sick were dying for want of the healing touch of Jesus. Physicians were consulted in vain; there was no skill like that of Him who lay in Joseph's tomb.
jello13091: A great stone had been placed before the opening. Across this stone they placed cords, securing the ends to the solid rock, and sealing them with the Roman seal. The stone could not be moved without breaking the seal. A guard of one hundred soldiers was then stationed around the sepulcher to prevent it from being tampered with. The priests did all they could to keep Christ's body where it had been laid.
psycho314t: The very efforts made to prevent Christ's resurrection are the most convincing arguments in its proof. The greater the number of soldiers placed around the tomb, the stronger would be the testimony that He had risen.
iwillgonow: When the people learned that Jesus had been put to death by the priests, inquiries were made regarding His death. The particulars of His trial were kept as private as possible; but during the time when He was in the grave, His name was on thousands of lips, and reports of
777
His mock trial, and of the inhumanity of the priests and rulers, were circulated everywhere.
jello13091: that's awesome....they tried their hardest and it only proved God's greatness even more
jello13091: what does derision mean?
psycho314t: de·ri·sion (d-rzhn)
n.
Contemptuous or jeering laughter; ridicule.
A state of being derided: The proposal was held in derision by members of the board.
An object of ridicule; a laughingstock.
jello13091: ah ok thanks
jello13091: And there were unseen watchers. Hosts of evil angels were gathered about the place. Had it been possible, the prince of darkness with his apostate army would have kept forever sealed the tomb that held the Son of God. But a heavenly host surrounded the sepulcher. Angels that excel in strength were guarding the tomb, and waiting to welcome the Prince of life.
psycho314t: At the death of Jesus the soldiers had beheld the earth wrapped in darkness at midday; but at the resurrection they saw the brightness of the angels illuminate the night, and heard the inhabitants of heaven singing with great joy and triumph: Thou hast vanquished Satan and the powers of darkness; Thou hast swallowed up death in victory!
Christ came forth from the tomb glorified,
jello13091: that answers our question then
jello13091: He was glorified
psycho314t: yeah.. hmm.. so i wonder what the new form was when He appeared to the others..
iwillgonow: The face they look upon is not the face
780
of mortal warrior; it is the face of the mightiest of the Lord's host. This messenger is he who fills the position from which Satan fell. It is he who on the hills of Bethlehem proclaimed Christ's birth. The earth trembles at his approach, the hosts of darkness flee, and as he rolls away the stone, heaven seems to come down to the earth.
iwillgonow: Who is this mightiest of the angelic hosts?
jello13091: Was that like Michael or Gabriel?
jello13091: It was one of the archangels right?
psycho314t: it was Jesus.. = michael
iwillgonow: So Jesus came down from Heaven to resurrect Himself?
iwillgonow: And Jesus proclaimed His own birth at Bethlehem?
psycho314t: grr.. no, that doesnt make sense.. but i thought the "mightiest of the Lord's host" was michael?
iwillgonow: It was and is Gabriel, the Archangel of the Lord, who was given the title that Lucifer lost when he was banished from Heaven.
jello13091: ok
psycho314t: oh.. i thought Jesus took that title
jello13091: knew it was one o f them
jello13091: Satan was third in rank under Jesus who was under God
jello13091: When Satan fell, Gabriel took his place
psycho314t: ok
iwillgonow: After the battle in Heaven, Jesus appointed Gabriel commander of the Heavenly Host, but it was Jesus who fought Lucifer and commanded His army against the fallen angels.
psycho314t: ahh.. maybe thats what i was thinking
iwillgonow: Gabriel was the fourth greatest being before Lucifer fell.
jello13091: but he became the third
iwillgonow: And because of that order he was given a raise.
iwillgonow: He has been, since he was promoted, even greater in every way to Satan.
iwillgonow: Excelling in strength and glory.
iwillgonow: The soldiers see him removing the stone as he would a pebble, and hear him cry, Son of God, come forth; Thy Father calls Thee.
jello13091: The guards saw what happened but still lied....
jello13091: sorry priests......
iwillgonow: So in sinfully desiring to be more powerful than he was meant to be, even equal to GOD, Satan was made less powerful than his second in command.
iwillgonow: Who, when he came down, Satan fled from the sight of the one he used to be superior to.
jello13091: The priests and rulers were in continual dread, lest in walking the streets, or within the privacy of their own homes, they should come face to face with Christ. They felt that there was no safety for them. Bolts and bars were but poor protection against the Son of God. By day and by night that awful scene in the judgment hall, when they had cried, "His blood be on us, and on our children," was before them. Matt. 27:25. Nevermore would the memory of that scene fade from their minds. Nevermore would peaceful sleep come to their pillows.
iwillgonow: They see Jesus come forth from the grave, and hear Him proclaim over the rent sepulcher, "I am the resurrection, and the life." As He comes forth in majesty and glory, the angel host bow low in adoration before the Redeemer, and welcome Him with songs of praise. {DA 779.3}
iwillgonow: He was human in form.
iwillgonow: He evermore shall be.
jello13091: But He was glorified
iwillgonow: And His resurrection was in glory and majesty, but not full power, else all mortals would have been consumed.
jello13091: ok that's what i was thinking
iwillgonow: For we know that when Jesus comes in full glory, no man will be able to exist who is not perfect in Him.
jello13091: As Christ arose, He brought from the grave a multitude of captives. The earthquake at His death had rent open their graves, and when He arose, they came forth with Him. They were those who had been co-laborers with God, and who at the cost of their lives had borne testimony to the truth. Now they were to be witnesses for Him who had raised them from the dead.
jello13091: So like Moses and Enoch were with Him?
psycho314t: moses was already in heaven, i thought
iwillgonow: No, Moses was taken when he died.
jello13091: So who was with Jesus then?
psycho314t: i took it to be other believers that had graves near Jesus'
jello13091: those who had preached His ways like John the BAptist, and were killed for doing that>
jello13091: ?
psycho314t: i think so
iwillgonow: I don't know who was given immortality for sure, I'd have to ask to remember.
iwillgonow: But it was more than a few.
jello13091: But those who came forth from the grave at Christ's resurrection were raised to everlasting life. They ascended with Him as trophies of His victory over death and the grave. These, said Christ, are no longer the captives of Satan; I have redeemed them. I have brought them from the grave as the first fruits of My power, to be with Me where I am, nevermore to see death or experience sorrow.
iwillgonow: Those who did arise we prominent figures in the history of Israel and Judah, such that seeing them people would know who they were and be awestruck these dead are alive.
psycho314t: is that the elders spoken of in revelation?
psycho314t: or am i thinking of something else?
iwillgonow: Perhaps it is, I've never thought of that before.
psycho314t: hmm
iwillgonow: I wondered where those human elders came from.
iwillgonow: To be in heaven before the judgement.
iwillgonow: I knew Moses and Elijah would be there.
iwillgonow: And the one who was taken because he walked with God in perfection.
jello13091: These went into the city, and appeared unto many, declaring, Christ has risen from the dead, and we be risen with Him. Thus was immortalized the sacred truth of the resurrection. The risen saints bore witness to the truth of the words, "Thy dead men shall live, together with My dead body shall they arise." Their resurrection was an illustration of the fulfillment of the prophecy, "Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead." Isa. 26:19.
iwillgonow: Methusaleh, was it?
iwillgonow: Enoch, that's it.
jello13091: yeah ENoch was just taken
iwillgonow: When Jesus was laid in the grave, Satan triumphed. He dared to hope that the Saviour would not take up His life again. He claimed the Lord's body, and set his guard about the tomb, seeking to hold Christ a prisoner. He was bitterly angry when his angels fled at the approach of the heavenly messenger. When he saw Christ come forth in triumph, he knew that his kingdom would have an end, and that he must finally die.
iwillgonow: Over the rent sepulcher of Joseph, Christ had proclaimed in triumph, "I am the resurrection, and the life." These words could be spoken only by the Deity. All created beings live by the will and power of God. They are dependent recipients of the life of God. From the highest seraph to the humblest animate being, all are replenished from the Source of life. Only He who is one with God could say, I have power to lay down My life, and I have power to take it again. In His divinity, Christ possessed the power to break the bonds of death.
jello13091: seraph being a celestial three winged being
iwillgonow: To the believer, death is but a small matter. Christ speaks of it as if it were of little moment. "If a man keep My saying, he shall never see death," "he shall never taste of death." To the Christian, death is but a sleep, a moment of silence and darkness. The life is hid with Christ in God, and "when Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with Him in glory." John 8:51, 52; Col. 3:4.
iwillgonow: It was Christ Himself who had placed those graveclothes with such care. When the mighty angel came down to the tomb, he was joined by another, who with his company had been keeping guard over the Lord's body. As the angel from heaven rolled away the stone, the other entered the tomb, and unbound the wrappings from the body of Jesus. But it was the Saviour's hand that folded each, and laid it in its place. In His sight who guides alike the star and the atom, there is nothing unimportant. Order and perfection are seen in all His work.
iwillgonow: That tells me to clean up my room.
psycho314t: erm...
iwillgonow: But now in His own familiar voice Jesus said to her, "Mary." Now she knew that it was not a stranger who was addressing her, and turning she saw before her the living Christ. In her joy she forgot that He had been crucified. Springing toward Him, as if to embrace His feet, she said, "Rabboni." But Christ raised His hand, saying, Detain Me not; "for I am not yet ascended to My Father: but go to My brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto My Father, and your Father; and to My God, and your God." And Mary went her way to the disciples with the joyful message.
iwillgonow: Jesus refused to receive the homage of His people until He had the assurance that His sacrifice was accepted by the Father. He ascended to the heavenly courts, and from God Himself heard the assurance that His atonement for the sins of men had been ample, that through His blood all might gain eternal life. The Father ratified the covenant made with Christ, that He would receive repentant and obedient men, and would love them even as He loves His Son. Christ was to complete His work, and fulfill His pledge to "make a man more precious than fine gold; even a man than the golden wedge of Ophir." Isa. 13:12. All power in heaven and on earth was given to the Prince of Life, and He returned to His followers in a world of sin, that He might impart to them of His power and glory.
iwillgonow: While the Saviour was in God's presence, receiving gifts for His church, the disciples thought upon His empty tomb, and mourned and wept. The day that was a day of rejoicing to all heaven was to the disciples a day of uncertainty, confusion, and perplexity. Their unbelief rection from the dead could mean. They were unable to take in the great subject.
jello13091: OPhir?
iwillgonow: Oops, that didn't copy right.
iwillgonow: While the Saviour was in God's presence, receiving gifts for His church, the disciples thought upon His empty tomb, and mourned and wept. The day that was a day of rejoicing to all heaven was to the disciples a day of uncertainty, confusion, and perplexity. Their unbelief
793
in the testimony of the women gives evidence of how low their faith had sunk. The news of Christ's resurrection was so different from what they had anticipated that they could not believe it. It was too good to be true, they thought.
iwillgonow: They had heard so much of the doctrines and the so-called scientific theories of the Sadducees that the impression made on their minds in regard to the resurrection was vague. They scarcely knew what the resurrection from the dead could mean. They were unable to take in the great subject.
iwillgonow: There.
Psycho314t: Ophir (1.) One of the sons of Joktan (Gen. 10:29). (2.) Some region famous for its gold (1 Kings 9:28; 10:11; 22:48; Job 22:24; 28:16; Isa. 13:12).
jello13091: yeah, thanks
jello13091: you looking on Easton's?
Psycho314t: i was gonna look that up when i read it the first time & i forgot.. nope, dictionary.com
jello13091: oh the same thing was on Easton's Bible DIctionary
jello13091: that dictionary site you gave me is so cool
Psycho314t: ah, yeah, i just saw the footnote.. Source: Easton's Bible Dictionary
Psycho314t: i know, i use it all the time
jello13091: As Jesus arose from the dead, so those who sleep in Him are to rise again. We shall know our friends, even as the disciples knew Jesus. They may have been deformed, diseased, or disfigured, in this mortal life, and they rise in perfect health and symmetry; yet in the glorified body their identity will be perfectly preserved. Then shall we know even as also we are known
jello13091: "And when He had said this, He breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost: Whosesoever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whosesoever sins ye retain, they are retained." The Holy Spirit was not yet fully manifested; for Christ had not yet been glorified. The more abundant impartation of the Spirit did not take place till after Christ's ascension. Not until this was received could the disciples fulfill the commission to preach the gospel to the world
iwillgonow: You, your character, what makes you an individual, will not perish, so that even with a totally new and perfect body, you will be distinguishable by friends from the appearance on your face, the way you handle yourself, your unhidable manorisms.
iwillgonow: They'll know you from that smile, or that way you walk, or how you hold your head.
iwillgonow: The look in your eye, perhaps.
psycho314t: thats kewl.. ive wondered that before..
iwillgonow: What composes your identity was yours in this life, and in the next; it's you.
06/16/01
iwillgonow: Fascinating!
iwillgonow: I never realized this before!
jello13091: What?!
iwillgonow: What did Jesus say when He died?
jello13091: It is finished
iwillgonow: Before that.
psycho314t: "my God, why have you forsaken me?"
jello13091: Why hast thou forsaken me
iwillgonow: My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?
jello13091: Ok......
psycho314t: ...and?
iwillgonow: Well guess what...he was quoting Psalms.
jello13091: And......
jello13091: Oh.
jello13091: Ok.
psycho314t: ah.. didnt know that
iwillgonow: To show more proof He was the Messiah.
jello13091: brb
iwillgonow: Psalms 22.
iwillgonow: Those who realized this knew He was fulfilling prophecy; He was the Messiah.
iwillgonow: Read it; it was His thoughts, written long before that day ever came.
jello13091: Back.
psycho314t: yeah, im reading... Psal:22:8: He trusted on the LORD [that] he would deliver him: let him deliver him, seeing he delighted in him.
thats similar to what they said to Him, too
psycho314t: Psal:22:22: I will declare thy name unto my brethren: in the midst of the congregation will I praise thee.
iwillgonow: It has all parallels.
jello13091: I think I had stuff from this chapter as things as proof that Jesus was the Messiah.
jello13091: Yeah, Psalms 22:16
iwillgonow: Dogs compass Him, pierced hands and feet, and the grueling description of His feelings...dried up, no strength, feeling utterly cast off from God.
iwillgonow: Will we remember what happened on this earth when we are in Heaven?
iwillgonow: Or will our memories be whipped clean to help us be perfectly happy?
psycho314t: i was always told our memories would be devoid of anything unhappy.. anything relating to those who weren't in heaven w/ us, etc
jello13091: Won't we remember some stuff?
iwillgonow: We will remember.
psycho314t: everything?
iwillgonow: I didn't think so, because of the "Jesus will wipe the tears from our eyes, and there will be no more crying" passage.
iwillgonow: But there are too many examples of memory.
iwillgonow: Jesus will forever bear the scars of His crucifixion.
iwillgonow: WE WILL NOT FORGET.
iwillgonow: We will study the mystery of the incarnate word, and God giving up His Son to die for us by infinite love, for all time.
iwillgonow: WE WILL REMEMBER.
