feast days (sabbaths): the Lord's supper

04/07/01

iwillgonow: Tomorrow's the Lord's Supper. You know what that is?
psycho314t: what it was in bible times or what it is in churches?
iwillgonow: Uh, what it is Biblically supposed to be.
psycho314t: Jesus last supper w/ the disciples
iwillgonow: Yes, and everything about it we were told to observe, like the bread, wine, feet washing, ya know.
psycho314t: yup
iwillgonow: Tonight will be the beginning of the fourteenth day of the first month, which was Passover, but has been the Lord's Supper since that first night.
iwillgonow: It's a Sabbath day, just like today.
iwillgonow: Thou est dumbfounded or something???
psycho314t: oh.. no, sorry, reading matthew 26
iwillgonow: Yup, more than one Sabbath day in the Bible. Many days are called "Sabbaths," and therefore require the same obedience that the Seventh Day Sabbath commands.
iwillgonow: I need to find that "no buying or selling" verse(s).
psycho314t: ah.. yeah...
iwillgonow: Let's go through it in Luke.
iwillgonow: Starting with Jesus eating/observing the Passover that same night.
iwillgonow: Luke:22:15: And he said unto them, With desire I have desired to eat this passover with you before I suffer:
psycho314t: k
iwillgonow: Alright, so we know Jesus is eating the real deal Passover that night, as all Jews were commanded to do.
psycho314t: yeah
iwillgonow: Now for the two things that must be done.
iwillgonow: Luke:22:17: And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and said, Take this, and divide it among yourselves:
iwillgonow: Luke:22:19: And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me.
iwillgonow: So, He has observed the Passover, doing these two things.
psycho314t: yup..
iwillgonow: Now the Lord's Supper:
iwillgonow: Luke:22:20: Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you.
iwillgonow: After supper, after the Passover, immediately, Jesus performed the same acts again, instituting the Lord's Supper over the Passover that very night, because He would fulfill the Passover forever that very night with his death.
iwillgonow: Slain as the "Lamb of God," which taketh away the sin of the world.
iwillgonow: BRB, check that out for a bit.
psycho314t: ah, ok... i get it now.. i never realized all that..
iwillgonow: Done eating.
psycho314t: wb... i'm about to in a few mins, moms making sandwiches..
iwillgonow: Alright, I'm looking up the Supper in the four books.
psycho314t: how does the timing of the Lords supper & the crucifixion work out? it seems like they happen on the same day, but they dont...? yeah, thats what i was doing
iwillgonow: Jesus was killed on the Passover day.
iwillgonow: To fulfill prophecy and the sacrificial system, Him being the Ultimate Lamb slain that the Israelites could be forgiven their sins.
psycho314t: ok.. so what about easter? why is it not celebrated until a week later?
iwillgonow: Because the Gregorian calandar is pagan, a Roman device.
iwillgonow: Between the time Jesus died and was risen was 3 days only.
iwillgonow: Not a week.
psycho314t: yeah, i know that
psycho314t: so which one is wrong..? that good friday & easter are celebrated next weekend instead of in the middle of the week, or that the Lords supper is tomorrow instead of next.. thursday?
iwillgonow: The Bible says that the fourteenth day of the first month of the year is Passover, or now the Lord's Supper.
iwillgonow: The year just began with Spring.
iwillgonow: The vernal equinox.
iwillgonow: Shall a new year begin in the DEAD of winter?
iwillgonow: No, that's not common sense.
iwillgonow: New year begins with Spring, the renewal, rebirth of life.
iwillgonow: New beginning, new year.
psycho314t: ok, that makes sense..
iwillgonow: The Gregorian calandar is so corrupt and pagan that it doesn't follow the seasons of the year. How awful is that?
psycho314t: that's pretty bad
iwillgonow: Spring is the beginning, winter is the end.
iwillgonow: That is the natural order of the earth.
psycho314t: yeah..
iwillgonow: Easter is just as pagan as Christmas, or the Mass of Christ, as Catholics know it.
iwillgonow: There is no Biblical command to keep either.
psycho314t: ya, i knew christmas was celebrated in the wrong time of the year..
iwillgonow: Neither Halloween, which is also of the devil, and that one's pretty obvious.
psycho314t: heh, yeah
iwillgonow: So if you have a farmer's almanac,
iwillgonow: and you find the vernal equinox,
iwillgonow: and go 14 days from it,
iwillgonow: you have tonight as the beginning of the Lord's Supper.
psycho314t: hmm.. my calendar shows the vernal equinox as being march 20th..
iwillgonow: (Vernal equinox is the official beginning of spring, using astronomy and the position of the earth in orbit around the sun)
psycho314t: yeah.. when daylight & dark are the same length
psycho314t: but mar 20th wouldve made the 14th day this past monday
iwillgonow: Hm...lemme check on the farmer's almanac.
psycho314t: k, & my gma just called, so brb
iwillgonow: Haha, you're right, but the exact day I didn't authoricate, though it doesn't matter when making this point?
iwillgonow: I mean point:
iwillgonow: God gave the earth the moon to measure the months of the year.
iwillgonow: A "new moon" is the beginning of a new month.
iwillgonow: A "new moon" is when there is no moon in the sky, making a full moon the halfway point of the month.
iwillgonow: The "new moon" closest to the vernal equinox is the beginning of the first month of the year.
iwillgonow: Because it cannot be the vernal equinox alone, seeing that God commanded the moon to be for months, in Genesis.
iwillgonow: And that explains the slight descrepancy between the equinox and tonight being the beginning of the 14th day of the first month.
psycho314t: aha
iwillgonow: You can check in a farmer's almanac to find when the last full moon was, and that was the first of the year.
iwillgonow: Can't forget the moon... but I did.
psycho314t: yeah.. we might have a calendar w/ the moon's phases on it somewhere... but mom wants me to eat, so brb
iwillgonow: So anyway, astronomy is the same, it's just the man-made calandars that have everything on the wrong seasonal times and such.
iwillgonow: k
psycho314t: i knew the calendars were different, but i'd never thought about how much diff they were
iwillgonow: Oh they're messed up.
iwillgonow: All off whack and out of harmony with nature.
psycho314t: yeah
iwillgonow: Now I gotta go for a sec. Find the Lord's Supper in Mathew, we'll look at that next to compare to Luke.
psycho314t: i already read it in matthew : P did that b4 u told me to go to luke
psycho314t: when i was reading matt 26
psycho314t: bah.. brb again
psycho314t: back, i think
iwillgonow: 1Cor:11:20: When ye come together therefore into one place, this is not to eat the Lord's supper.
iwillgonow: This is the only mention of the words "Lord's supper" used in the Bible, though it shows it is.
iwillgonow: By the way, there is no verse concretely saying in exact words "No buying or selling on the Sabbath." It is a implied thing, with numerous sources to back the idea.
psycho314t: hmm.. i was just going by what i read on biblestudy.org about it..
iwillgonow: Even the 4th commandment makes it impossible to do such by implication. How can someone serve you, or you them, without working on the Sabbath, and therefore selling or buying their services?
iwillgonow: For someone to serve you at a restuarant, gas station, and recieve pay for it, is a violation of the Sabbath.
iwillgonow: Or to work at all, for that matter.
psycho314t: yeah..
iwillgonow: So in order to receive money, you have to work for it, see the connection?
iwillgonow: And in order to sell something to receive money, you have to sell it, working to sell it.
iwillgonow: And selling and buying is not resting on the Sabbath.
psycho314t: ok, i get it
iwillgonow: Every
iwillgonow: Every "New Testament" citing during that supper is the initiation the Lord's supper, seeing obviously the Passover is not a New Testament ordinance, but an Old Testament ordinace that Jesus fulfilled that night by His death.
psycho314t: yeah..
iwillgonow: How did Jesus fulfill the Passover with His death?
psycho314t: the israelites were saved by the blood of the lamb during the passover.. which is exactly what happened when He was crucified...
iwillgonow: Yes, He fulfilled the "type" of the lamb that was sacrificed to take the sins away from the people, to die in the place of the people. Jesus was the last "lamb" needed, He was the only real "lamb" that could ever take away sin. Once He died, the point of the Passover (pointing to a Messiah that would save the Israelites by taking away their sins) was fulfilled.
psycho314t: yup..
iwillgonow: So the point of the Lord's supper is...?
psycho314t: point of the Lords supper is to... lets see.. to seal the fact that Jesus' death was to take away their sin..? i'm not really sure...
iwillgonow: Yeah sorta. It is to remember His death, and it's point.
iwillgonow: And that He'll come back, of course.
psycho314t: ok.. i remembered reading in one of the accounts of it that it was 'sealing the new covenant', i just wasnt totally sure what that covenant was..
iwillgonow: Yes, it established the New Testament.
iwillgonow: Though the Old is not "nailed to the Cross."
iwillgonow: God's word, Old and New Testament, is unchanging, and forever.
iwillgonow: Only what was FULFILLED by Jesus was ended, because it's purpose was served and completed.
psycho314t: yeah... makes sense..
iwillgonow: Jesus did not fulfill the Sabbath day, therefore it is forever.
iwillgonow: Jesus did not change the Sabbath day, because there was no reason to.
psycho314t: erm... brb
iwillgonow: k
iwillgonow: And of course He said "I change not." And that would also mean His word.
iwillgonow: Ta da!
psycho314t: ok, i'm back
psycho314t: so why do ppl think that the sabbath is now sunday..? just b/c that's the day He was resurrected?
psycho314t: ARGH brb again >: \
iwillgonow: Yup.
psycho314t: k
iwillgonow: Did God say anything, did Jesus say ANYTHING, about changing the Sabbath day for any reason???
iwillgonow: Nu uh.
iwillgonow: To do so is to disobey the fourth commandment, which was made for a memorial of Creation, that the Creator rested, and so should we, for all time.
psycho314t: yeah
iwillgonow: Did Jesus fulfill the Ten Commandments by dying at the cross?
iwillgonow: What was about them to be fulfilled in the first place?
iwillgonow: They are rules for living human beings to always follow.
iwillgonow: "Oh, Jesus died, so that means I can commit adultery."
iwillgonow: Where's the connection between Jesus death and the end of adultery being wrong???
psycho314t: there isn't one
iwillgonow: Basically the same arguement to forget the Sabbath.
psycho314t: yeah..
iwillgonow: Jesus commanded the fourth commandment.
iwillgonow: Humans decided that Jesus decided the fourth commandment was nullified by Jesus' death.
iwillgonow: Jesus only commanded the fourth commandment.
iwillgonow: Hm...
iwillgonow: I told you the historical roots of the sunday sabbath, didn't I?
psycho314t: the romans trying to take power away from the church, right?
iwillgonow: 400 A.D. Constantine, the current Roman Emporer and leader of the civilized world, decreed that in order to make "Christianity" the religion of the State, that Sunday would be the decided day of rest, in order to please the pagans who worshipped the sun on that day, and please the "Christians" by making up a belief that because Jesus arose on a sunday, it changed the Sabbath day somehow, like as a memorial of His ressurection, which is completely unBiblical and contrary to the fourth commandment.
iwillgonow: And so the Catholic church went along with this.
psycho314t: and everyone else seemed to follow..
iwillgonow: Search Constantine on the Internet. He wanted the glory of being the first "Christian" Roman Emporer.
iwillgonow: So he melded pagan and "Christian" days to compromise.
iwillgonow: Which is expressly forbidden by the Bible.
iwillgonow: Mixing pagan anything with God anything is wrong.
psycho314t: yeah
iwillgonow: The very Lord's Supper which many Christians regard as the core of Sunday worship, initially was celebrated on different days of the week and commemorated Christ's sacrifice and Second Coming rather than His resurrection
iwillgonow: Paul, for instance, who claims to transmit what "he received from the Lord" (1 Cor 11:23), explicitly states that the rite commemorated not Christ's resurrection, but His sacrifice and Second Coming ("You proclaim the Lord's death till He comes" (1 Cor 11:26)).
iwillgonow: We know that the Roman sun-cults influenced Christian thought and liturgy. The Church Fathers' frequently rebuke Christians for venerating the sun. (31) In early Christian art and literature, the sun is often used as a symbol to represent Christ. (32) The orientation of early Christian churches was changed; instead of facing Jerusalem like synagogues, churches were orientated to the East. (33) The dies natalis solis Invicti (the birthday of the Invincible Sun) was chosen as the Christian Christmas.
psycho314t: birthday of the invincible sun...?
iwillgonow: Sol Invictus, or the sun, was supposedly born, according to pagans who worship it, at the day people celebrate Christ-Mass.
psycho314t: hmm...
iwillgonow: Is it the 23rd or 25th of December?
psycho314t: 25th
iwillgonow: You said earlier, and so you know, that it was impossible for Jesus to be born in the winter time, because there would be no shepards tending to their sheep. The date was chosen to combine the pagan sun-worship and Catholic precepts.
psycho314t: and also b/c they were collecting taxes then.. wouldnt make sense for them to be making everyone travel in mid-winter
iwillgonow: In order to more easily "convert" the pagans to psuedo-Christian Catholisism.
psycho314t: yeah..
iwillgonow: The date is fake, it's made up.
iwillgonow: And we are not commanded to celebrate His birthday.
iwillgonow: Nor His resurrection.
iwillgonow: But we are commanded to remember His death till He comes.
iwillgonow: On a specific day.
iwillgonow: Doing specific things.

iwillgonow: So I take it you've never done the Lord's supper?
iwillgonow: It is tonight, and a commanded observance.
psycho314t: no, not like that.. i did the grape juice & cracker thing at a friends church one time..
iwillgonow: As keeping any Sabbath, be it the 7th day Sabbath or this one, you should do it.
psycho314t: my church observes it on easter morning.. but i never go to the services..
psycho314t: when i was still going with my gma, she never let me do it.. always passed the plates over me
iwillgonow: The reason we do it tonight is to be in accordance with the 14th day of the first month, going from the first new moon of the new year closest the vernal equinox.
psycho314t: yeah
iwillgonow: This is the true one, and certainly correct as opposed to a week from now, astronomically and nature-wise.
iwillgonow: To continue in old ways after being shown the truth that you are convicted upon by the Holy Spirit is a sin, though not said to scare you, but to let you know this is worth studying out to come to a decision on whether or not you'll do it, like the 7th day Sabbath.
psycho314t: you didnt scare me, i was sitting here thinking about that already
iwillgonow: Maybe you ought to ask me bout all the holidays and religious days soon, so you'll have more time to think! Ha ha!
psycho314t: heh.. sounds like that could take awhile..
iwillgonow: Well, all the Old Testament "feast days" are still valid Sabbaths. They were not fulfilled, and accordingly should still be observed until they see a fulfillment.
psycho314t: days which i know nothing about..
iwillgonow: Not hard to learn them, just takes a simple search using the word "feast" in the OT only, or NT to see them still observed.
psycho314t: alright, i'll do that soon..
iwillgonow: But about tonight, time is running quickly out.
iwillgonow: If you are not sure, need more study, then so be it.
iwillgonow: If it seems that Jesus did it, he commanded it be done, and this is sufficient for now, then there you have it.
psycho314t: yeah, that's why i'm not searching for feast tonight.. i'm trying to think.. if i am convicted about tonight, what do i do?
iwillgonow: Do you believe Jesus commanded it be done?
iwillgonow: ake, eat; this is my body.
Drink ye all of it;
Math:26:28: For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.
iwillgonow: The three parts are:
iwillgonow: Eat the unleavened bread.
iwillgonow: Drink the grape juice.
iwillgonow: And wash the feet of those who participate.
iwillgonow: This is done so that we may remember the great sacrifice Jesus made till he comes again.
iwillgonow: Because without doing it, without dying, he could not be worthy to be OUR intercessor in Heaven right now.
psycho314t: yeah..
iwillgonow: If this is true, and you believe it, then the only thing in question is the time we do it.
iwillgonow: The Gregorian calendar is so screwed up.
iwillgonow: It is not in harmony with the seasons, or the moon.
psycho314t: i know..
iwillgonow: Tonight is the night, based on the beginning of the new year being the beginning of spring, which is the vernal equinox, and the first month of the new year beginning at the new moon closest to the vernal equinox.
iwillgonow: The time is only a few minutes away.
psycho314t: and i don't have unleavened bread or grape juice..
iwillgonow: Come if you wish.
iwillgonow: To my house.
psycho314t: your family observes it? or just you?
iwillgonow: My family.
iwillgonow: Yes or no, the time approaches.
psycho314t: i would feel like a major outsider..
iwillgonow: You are so welcome, just come or no.
iwillgonow: An answer.
psycho314t: i dont know.. i... i need to, because... i do believe He commanded it, so...
iwillgonow: Then come.
psycho314t: ok
iwillgonow: Great!
iwillgonow: Feel like that was so huge.
iwillgonow: Teetering on the edge of something great.
psycho314t: my heart is pounding..
iwillgonow: Come now, it is time!~
psycho314t: itll take me a couple minutes to get ready, but i'll hurrying
iwillgonow: You must just come now!
iwillgonow: If you have clothes on, then get in car and go!
iwillgonow: The sun is setting!
iwillgonow: NoW!
iwillgonow: Ok?
iwillgonow: Jennifer come now!
iwillgonow: There's no time!
psycho314t: ok ok ok
iwillgonow: Go!@


psycho314t: back
iwillgonow: I'm here.
iwillgonow: So you thought bout anything to say?
psycho314t: nah, not really.. getting too tired to think much... but i'm glad u invited me, & glad i went
iwillgonow: Awesome thing, felt like it was monumentally world important and everybody was watching to see how'd it turn out, you know.
iwillgonow: Angels in presence, like we read.
iwillgonow: PS you cannot do the incorrect Lord's supper now, you know.
iwillgonow: It would be a denial of the true one you just did.
iwillgonow: Common sense .
psycho314t: oh, i know.. the angles thing cought my attention too... yup., common sense..
psycho314t: whoa.. spelling went to pot, there
psycho314t: angels... caught..
iwillgonow: The angles are watching??? Haha.
iwillgonow: Cool thing, be in Heaven's record books.
psycho314t: yeah, it is..
iwillgonow: Might want to get a farmer's almanac so you can check the dates and make sure you're on the right "schedule."

 

06/03/01

jello13091: "Whoso eateth My flesh, and drinketh My blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day." John 10:10; 4:14; 6:54.
jello13091: that's where what's it called came from
jello13091: i'm drawing a blank
jello13091: the cracker and wince
psycho314t: Lord's supper?
jello13091: wine
jello13091: no
jello13091: catholics do it, where they take the cracker whole and drink the wine? It was in “Bless Me Ultima”
jello13091: It's like where they are taking in the whole body of Christ
jello13091: Communion
jello13091: there we go
iwillgonow: The call their unholy Lord's supper "Mass."
psycho314t: ohh
iwillgonow: Which they do every sunday, instead of once a year as commanded.
jello13091: so that is supposed to be their "Lord's supper"?
iwillgonow: Yes, their twisted version of it.
jello13091: huh, never knew that
iwillgonow: Jennifer says the Baptists also do it incorrectly.
jello13091: What do they do?
psycho314t: they hold it like.. several times a year
psycho314t: ive never found any rhyme or reason to that
jello13091: why?
psycho314t: every 3 or 4 months.. i have no clue
psycho314t: i'll go ask.. hang on
iwillgonow: It's very possible that every Protestant religion also does it more than once a year for who knows what reason.
jello13091: what are the Protestant religions?
iwillgonow: While the Catholics think it should be done every sunday, making you holier or something.
jello13091: I need to make a chart with all the religions that have all the branches of it
jello13091: or them
iwillgonow: Any Christian religion that branched off from Catholisism during the end of the Dark Ages.
psycho314t: "its a tribute to God, remembering His death".. which is odd, makes it sound like she sees Jesus as God, which i'm pretty sure she doesnt
iwillgonow: Hence they're called protestors, or Protestants.
jello13091: ok
psycho314t: ]she wants to know if the bible specifically says to keep it once a year or not
psycho314t: there is, isnt there?
jello13091: it doesn't say to keep it every now and then.....right?
iwillgonow: That is the only example we have, just as the Passover was to only be kept once a year, the Lord's Supper was instituted in it's place, making logic say it should keep the same time.
iwillgonow: She applies the same logic, howbeit incorrectly, in keeping the sunday Sabbath once a week, just as the seventh day Sabbath is kept once a week.
iwillgonow: Even though that's not "spelled out every single letter for you."
iwillgonow: As far as the sunday Sabbath goes, which they have NO commandments for, but in their reasoning think it should be once a week.
iwillgonow: As is the Seventh day, or was, to them.
psycho314t: yeah..
psycho314t: and i hafta go eat.. bbiab
psycho314t: err.. look for this while im gone: she says theres something in corinthians about keeping the Lords supper more than once a year
psycho314t: oh.. i wonder if she's talking about this
psycho314t: 1Cor:11:23: For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, That the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread:
1Cor:11:24: And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me.
1Cor:11:25: After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me.
1Cor:11:26: For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come.
jello13091: what?
psycho314t: jacob, didnt we look at that before? ppl see the "as often as ye eat/drink" thing and think they can do it whenever they want?
iwillgonow: What a poor interpretation, twisted to be out of harmony with the example set forth by the Passover, which we do often, once a year, over the course of our lives.
jello13091: that seems logical in that way
psycho314t: i know.. lemme go see if thats what she's talking about
iwillgonow: If I was to say I observe the Sabbath often, I would obviously mean that I do it once a week, every week of the year. But if you use poor logic, you could say that to observe the Sabbath often would be to observe it more than once a week, and therefore you would be accepting something that goes against every example in the Bible for the observation of the many Sabbaths.
jello13091: ok so whats going on?
iwillgonow: We're explaining why we only observe the Lord's Supper once a year.
jello13091: yeah I kinda got that much
iwillgonow: Well that's what's going on.
jello13091: ok then
psycho314t: blah.. blah blah blah blah.. she doesnt listen
psycho314t: "...we do it to remember, its a love gift to Christ, we need to be reminded often of His sacrifice..."
iwillgonow: So that was her verse?
psycho314t: yeah, it was
iwillgonow: Taken out of context and against example.
psycho314t: and she says its now observed by the baptists every 5th sunday in a month
psycho314t: every month that has 5 sundays
psycho314t: yeah
iwillgonow: If we were to show her the verse that Paul says, saying "BE YE PERFECT," would she disregard that?
jello13091: are there 5 sundays in a month?
jello13091: oh
psycho314t: /me shrugs
iwillgonow: Some do, by the gregorian calendar.
iwillgonow: July.
jello13091: yeah
psycho314t: "the bible does not specify when to keep it, so keeping it more than once per year is not wrong" and no matter how many arguments i gave her, she stood firm in that... passover was once a year: "but Jesus came and did away with passover"
psycho314t: Jesus only died once, why commemorate the death many times a year? "because we need to remember it"
jello13091: doesn;t the Bible specify it though?
psycho314t: it doesnt specifically say keep it only once a year, no
iwillgonow: Perhaps she would say "Nobody can be perfect, we're all sinners, Jesus was the only perfect one..." so why does Paul say to be perfect, not try your best, not be as good as you can be, not be really close, but BE YE PERFECT?
iwillgonow: The Bible doesn't specify sunday as the Sabbath, but it does with the Seventh day, so why keep it?
psycho314t: sunday is kept to remember Jesus' death, i already have her answer for that one
iwillgonow: Resurrection, you mean, Jennifer.
psycho314t: er. yeah
iwillgonow: But does the Bible "specifically tell you to keep it?"
iwillgonow: No.
psycho314t: i bet she'd say its something else done to show our love
iwillgonow: Does it say to keep it once a week?
iwillgonow: No.
iwillgonow: So why not keep sunday, EVERYDAY?
iwillgonow: Terrible logic.