faith: the relationship between faith & grace
06/01/01
iwillgonow: Do we ask God for things because He will do it, or to prove He will do it?
psycho314t: because
jello13091: It should be becasue He will do it, but i remember reading that many ask and once it is proven, then they believe
iwillgonow: We should not present our petitions to God to prove whether He will fulfill His word, but because He will fulfill it; not to prove that He loves us, but because He loves us. "Without faith it is impossible to please Him: for he that cometh to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of them that diligently seek Him." Heb. 11:6.
psycho314t: hmm.. another bible drill verse that i never thought of the context
iwillgonow: What is the difference between presumption and faith, or is there? Look presumption up if you don't know what it is.
jello13091: persumption is just hoping and waiting for something to happen. faith is believeing and knowing.
jello13091: Oh wait, for presumption it says the grounds lending probability to a belief
psycho314t: yeah, presumption is like... blindly accepting it. its empty
iwillgonow: But faith is in no sense allied to presumption. Only he who has true faith is secure against presumption. For presumption is Satan's counterfeit of faith. Faith claims God's promises, and brings forth fruit in obedience. Presumption also claims the promises, but uses them as Satan did, to excuse transgression. Faith would have led our first parents to trust the love of God, and to obey His commands. Presumption led them to transgress His law, believing that His great love would save them from the consequence of their sin. It is not faith that claims the favor of Heaven without complying with the conditions on which mercy is to be granted. Genuine faith has its foundation in the promises and provisions of the Scriptures.
jello13091: Presumption is like thinking that we are saved just cause we observe the Sabbath
iwillgonow: Or that God loves us so much, that we shouldn't possibly do what He has commanded if it gets too rough, cause He will understand, since He understands everything.
07/14/01
jello13091: Grace- the work of God in the Heart
jello13091: I got that from somewhere.
iwillgonow: jello13091: Does God give His grace to sinners?
iwillgonow: iwillgonow: Jennifer, tell Julie what grace is and answer her question with common sense.
psycho314t: grace is... God's mercy towards us, the thing that, with Jesus' sacrifice on our behalf, allows us to live despite our sinful nature...
jello13091: Yeah, just got that.
psycho314t: and its a free gift to anyone who has the faith to accept it, i think
psycho314t: and we're all sinners..
iwillgonow: Julie, did she answer your question?
jello13091: Yes.
jello13091: But after a certain point, doesn't He stop?
jello13091: When one is so consumed by/with Satan.
jello13091: ?
psycho314t: i think ive heard that, yeah
jello13091: There is nothing He can do if a soul is already so involved with evil
iwillgonow: God does withdraw the offer, but I can't even imagine when He decides that enough is enough; His mercy is biggest.
psycho314t: like the verse that tells us not to waste our time on those who wont listen or something..?
psycho314t: brb..
iwillgonow: JUST know that God does have a limit on His mercy, thinking simply that He's going to end the world because He's had enough. We don't know when somebody has gone to far, or if they've reached their limit, so don't even think of trying to determine it of your own volition; leave it up to God.
jello13091: Ok, we weren't going to set His limit.
