faith: the relationship between faith & works
03/09/01
iwillgonow: The topic in the room is "saved by faith or saved by works?"
iwillgonow: Before you start, which is correct?
psycho314t: erm... i dunno.. both?
iwillgonow: Excellent.
iwillgonow: A tandem.
iwillgonow: One or the other only, is dead.
psycho314t: yeah, thats kinda what i was thinking...
psycho314t: uhm.. what did i miss? why'd they wipe it?
iwillgonow: Was getting food, don't know.
psycho314t: ah..
iwillgonow: What have you followed?
psycho314t: u mean in the chat? i sorta quit paying attn to them.. they didnt seem to be too enthusiastic on the topic... i took the hurricane metaphor marie made & started thinking about it..
iwillgonow: And your thoughts made verbal?
psycho314t: did u see the metaphor?
iwillgonow: Yes, prepare for hurricane=what?
psycho314t: i'll just paste what i already wrote to myself..
psycho314t: "When you believe something..say a hurricane is coming...you secure your house ..that belief motivates you to move..so faith motivates us to move..but the Holy Spirit is what empowers us to accomplish his works" <-- i like that.. its not the simple belief that the hurricane is coming towards you that saves you, but the fact that that belief motivates you to get up and do something to prepare for it... = its not the simple faith that Jesus will return that saves you, but also the fact that that faith motivates you to get up and do something to prepare for it.
iwillgonow: Good that it helps you become more clear in your understanding of faith, which should be studied in depth...a difficult subject.
iwillgonow: Many would like it to be just faith, or just works...they are both wrong.
iwillgonow: The Bible says...?
psycho314t: of course they would.. if it was just one or the other, life might be simpler. i dunno.. but i bet u'll tell me : P i think we had a bible drill verse about faith/works, or something similar, but i dont remember it..
iwillgonow: Well, I'll get some verses, and see if you can make the connections.
iwillgonow: Roma:1:17: For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
iwillgonow: Roma:3:27: Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
iwillgonow: Roma:3:28: Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
iwillgonow: Roma:3:31: Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
iwillgonow: 
iwillgonow: Roma:4:5: But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
iwillgonow: Roma:9:32: Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;
iwillgonow: Roma:16:26: But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:
iwillgonow: Gala:2:16: Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
iwillgonow: Gala:3:2: This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
iwillgonow: Gala:3:12: And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.
iwillgonow: Gala:3:23: But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
iwillgonow: Gala:3:24: Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
iwillgonow: Gala:3:25: But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
iwillgonow: The mind reals....
iwillgonow: Gala:6:10: As we have therefore opportunity, let us do good unto all men, especially unto them who are of the household of faith.
iwillgonow: Ephe:2:8: For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
iwillgonow: Phil:3:9: And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:
iwillgonow: 1Thes:1:3: Remembering without ceasing your work of faith, and labour of love, and patience of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ, in the sight of God and our Father;
iwillgonow: Ha ha! Follow! And learn!!!
psycho314t: ah.. ephesians 2:8, i know that one's from bible drill.. and i am following, thats why im not saying anything.. following along in my bible, reading around all these verses...
iwillgonow: 2Thes:1:11: Wherefore also we pray always for you, that our God would count you worthy of this calling, and fulfil all the good pleasure of his goodness, and the work of faith with power:
iwillgonow: 1Tim:3:9: Holding the mystery of the faith in a pure conscience.
iwillgonow: 1Tim:6:12: Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, whereunto thou art also called, and hast professed a good profession before many witnesses.
iwillgonow: Hebr:6:1: Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
iwillgonow: Hebr:11:1: Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
psycho314t: hebrews 11:1 = bible drill also.. i knew i remembered there being verses about faith..
iwillgonow: Hebr:11:4: By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh.
iwillgonow: Hebr:11:6: But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
iwillgonow: Hebr:11:7: By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith. (Faith causes acts...do you see?)
iwillgonow: Hebr:11:8: By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went. (AGAIN!)
iwillgonow: Hebr:11:9: By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise: (AGAIN!!)
iwillgonow: Hebr:11:17: By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son, (AGAIN!!!)
iwillgonow: Jame:1:3: Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience.
iwillgonow: Jame:2:14: What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
iwillgonow: Jame:2:17: Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
iwillgonow: Jame:2:18: Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
iwillgonow: Jame:2:20: But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
iwillgonow: Now Jennifer, the connection... Jame:2:22: Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
iwillgonow: Jame:2:24: Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
Jame:2:26: For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
iwillgonow: Reve:2:19: I know thy works, and charity, and service, and faith, and thy patience, and thy works; and the last to be more than the first.
iwillgonow: Reve:14:12: Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
iwillgonow: Do you see, do you see....?
iwillgonow: Short answer form, Jennifer.
psycho314t: lemme catch up..
psycho314t: alright... yeah, i see.. all of that seems to make sense...
iwillgonow: Haha!
iwillgonow: Of course it does!
iwillgonow: It's...perfect!!!
iwillgonow: Commandments, AND faith!
psycho314t: yeah..
iwillgonow: Another huge controversy, and you have been shown the truth, that no false doctrine can make you sway.
iwillgonow: Some say "works," some "faith..."
iwillgonow: A tandem.
iwillgonow: A tandem, so does the Bible say.
