Jesus: His new testament life & ministry
06/01/01
iwillgonow: COULD Jesus of sinned and failed?
psycho314t: yeah
iwillgonow: Exactly.
iwillgonow: Many claim that it was impossible for Christ to be overcome by temptation. Then He could not have been placed in Adam's position; He could not have gained the victory that Adam failed to gain. If we have in any sense a more trying conflict than had Christ, then He would not be able to succor us. But our Saviour took humanity, with all its liabilities. He took the nature of man, with the possibility of yielding to temptation.
iwillgonow: God cannot sin.
psycho314t: but man can
iwillgonow: Jesus was no God while a mortal man.
iwillgonow: And that completes that circuit of logic.
iwillgonow: He could of sinned, therefore He was a man.
psycho314t: yup
iwillgonow: Excellent.
iwillgonow: Wow, almost perfectly deceptive.
iwillgonow: Almost...
psycho314t: except for the "if..."
iwillgonow: Satan can only get as close as you can get, but not exactly.
iwillgonow: His form, his message, his logic in Abraham and Isaac and the angel stopping him, it was such a perfect scheme, except for the last part.
iwillgonow: Satan continued that temptation.
iwillgonow: With even more amazing brilliant logical deception.
iwillgonow: When Satan and the Son of God first met in conflict, Christ was the commander of the heavenly hosts; and Satan, the leader of revolt in heaven, was cast out. Now their condition is apparently reversed, and Satan makes the most of his supposed advantage. One of the most powerful of the angels, he says, has been banished from heaven. The appearance of Jesus indicates that He is that fallen angel, forsaken by God, and deserted by man. A divine being would be able to sustain his claim by working a miracle; "if Thou be the Son of God, command this stone that it be made bread." Such an act of creative power, urges the tempter, would be conclusive evidence of divinity.
jello13091: Did Satan know that Jesus would not fall into his temptation?
psycho314t: why would he try if he knew that?
jello13091: I don't know. He knew he wouldn't win, yet he still tried to by bringing others down.
iwillgonow: Satan obviously thought or knew Jesus could be broken.
iwillgonow: That it was POSSIBLE.
iwillgonow: He would be a fool to waste his time if it wasn't.
iwillgonow: Another proof that Jesus was a mortal man.
iwillgonow: And had the ability to sin.
iwillgonow: Satan is far from stupid.
iwillgonow: Or uneducated.
jello13091: Satan was high up in command, very intelligent, before he fell
iwillgonow: When Christ said to the tempter, "Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God," He repeated the words that, more than fourteen hundred years before, He had spoken to Israel: "The Lord thy God led thee these forty years in the wilderness. . . . So what did Jesus do when he quoted the Bible? That's right, he quoted Himself, cause He's the Author and the Speaker.
psycho314t: i remember thinking of the irony in that. satan tried using Jesus' own words to decieve Him
jello13091: huh, never thought of that before
iwillgonow: Think about it, remember who gave the Ten Commandments, who inspired the prophets/writers.
jello13091: yeah, i know
06/23/01
jello13091: Right when Jesus allowed Judas to be a disciple, Jesus knew that he would betray Him, right?
iwillgonow: Yes.
jello13091: Jesus did not pick Judas, yet Judas came towards Him and urged himself on HIm.
jello13091: BRb
iwillgonow: What?
iwillgonow: You'll have to show me that.
jello13091: Had to move the drier that time
jello13091: Let me find it again.
jello13091: While Jesus was preparing the disciples for their ordination, one who had not been summoned urged his presence among them. It was Judas Iscariot, a man who professed to be a follower of Christ. He now came forward, soliciting a place in this inner circle of disciples. With great earnestness and apparent sincerity he declared, "Master, I will follow Thee whithersoever Thou goest." Jesus neither repulsed nor welcomed him, but uttered only the mournful words: "The foxes have holes, and the birds of the air have nests; but the Son of man
Page 294
hath not where to lay His head." Matt. 8:19, 20. Judas believed Jesus to be the Messiah; and by joining the apostles, he hoped to secure a high position in the new kingdom. This hope Jesus designed to cut off by the statement of His poverty.
jello13091: one who had not been summoned urged his presence among them.
iwillgonow: Hm.
iwillgonow: Though perhaps Judas was not called by Jesus, Jesus still knew he would betray Him.
jello13091: Where in the Bible does it talk about the choosing of the disciples?
iwillgonow: Math:4:18:
iwillgonow: Begins His calling of His disciples.
jello13091: It always mentions Judas last and how he betrayed Him or was a traitor.
jello13091: she says Philip was the first to hear Jesus say "Follow me" and who followed.
jello13091: It doesn't say that Judas was picked.
iwillgonow: Perhaps he wasn't, what's the point?
jello13091: That he wasn't originally picked by Jesus.
iwillgonow: The world has no right to doubt the truth of Christianity
73
because there are unworthy members in the church, nor should Christians become disheartened because of these false brethren. How was it with the early church? Ananias and Sapphira joined themselves to the disciples. Simon Magus was baptized. Demas, who forsook Paul, had been counted a believer. Judas Iscariot was numbered with the apostles. The Redeemer does not want to lose one soul; His experience with Judas is recorded to show His long patience with perverse human nature; and He bids us bear with it as He has borne. He has said that false brethren will be found in the church till the close of time.
iwillgonow: Yet when Judas joined the disciples, he was not insensible to the beauty of the character of Christ. He felt the influence of that divine power which was drawing souls to the Saviour. . . . The Saviour read the heart of Judas; He knew the depths of iniquity to which, unless delivered by the grace of God, Judas would sink. In connecting this man with Himself, He placed him where he might, day by day, be brought in contact with the outflowing of His own selfish love. If he would open his heart to Christ, divine grace would banish the demon of selfishness, and even Judas might become a subject of the kingdom of God.
jello13091: Yeah.
iwillgonow: Judas had the same opportunities as had the other disciples. He listened to the same precious lessons. But the practice of the truth, which Christ required, was at variance with the desires and purposes of Judas, and he would not yield his ideas in order to receive wisdom from Heaven.
iwillgonow: The disciples knew nothing of the purpose of Judas. Jesus alone could read his secret. Yet He did not expose him. Jesus hungered for his soul. . . . His heart was crying, How can I give thee up? The constraining power of that love was felt by Judas. When the Saviour's hands were bathing those soiled feet, and wiping them with the towel, the heart of Judas thrilled through and through with the impulse then and there to confess his sin. But he would not humble himself. He hardened his heart against repentance; and the old impulses, for the moment put aside, again controlled him. Judas was now offended at Christ's act in washing the feet of His disciples. If Jesus could so humble Himself, he thought, He could not be Israel's king. All hope of worldly honor in a temporal kingdom was destroyed
iwillgonow: Judas was satisfied that there was nothing to be gained by following Christ. . . . He was possessed by a demon, and he resolved to complete the work he had agreed to do in betraying his Lord.
iwillgonow: At the Passover supper Jesus proved His divinity by revealing the traitor's purpose. He tenderly included Judas in the ministry to the disciples. But the last appeal of love was unheeded. Then the case of Judas was decided, and the feet that Jesus had washed went forth to the betrayer's work. {CC 319.4}
Until this step was taken, Judas had not passed beyond the possibility of repentance. But when he left the presence of his Lord and his fellow disciples, the final decision had been made. He had passed the boundary line.
jello13091: And that answered another question I had.
iwillgonow: At the head of one of the groups into which the apostles are divided stands the name of Philip. He was the first disciple to whom Jesus addressed the distinct command, "Follow me."
jello13091: Yeah
iwillgonow: God cannot be seen in external form by any human being. Christ alone can represent the Father to humanity.
jello13091: Yeah
iwillgonow: When Christ on the eve of His betrayal forewarned His disciples, "All ye shall be offended because of me this night," Peter confidently declared, "Although all shall be offended, yet will not I" (Mark 14:27, 29). Peter did not know his own danger. Self-confidence misled him. He thought himself able to withstand temptation; but in a few short hours the test came, and with cursing and swearing he denied his Lord.
jello13091: So what is the story with PEter?
iwillgonow: When Jesus was taken to trial, Peter was outside the court, and many said "Isn't that a follower of Jesus?" Peter feared for his own life, and denied Jesus with all manner of cuss words, saying "I swear to you I know not the man of whom ye speak!"
jello13091: And what happened to him?
iwillgonow: Jesus prophesied he would deny, and he did. When Peter realized what he had done, just as Jesus had said, EgW says his grief was like few men will ever know, and he repented and was forgiven by Jesus.
iwillgonow: When the crowing of the cock reminded him of the words of Christ, surprised and shocked at what he had just done he turned and looked at his Master. At that moment Christ looked at Peter, and beneath that grieved look, in which compassion and love for him were blended, Peter understood himself. He went out and wept bitterly. That look of Christ's broke his heart. Peter had come to the turning point, and bitterly did he repent his sin. . . . Now his self-confidence was gone. Never again were the old boastful assertions repeated. . . .
iwillgonow: It was through self-sufficiency that Peter fell; and it was through repentance and humiliation that his feet were again established. In the record of his experience every repenting sinner may find encouragement.
iwillgonow: How strong was his repentence? Only one other time have I seen the words "broken heart," and that was when Jesus was killed by the sin of the world. Bitterly, from a broken heart, did Peter repent of denying Jesus, who stood and looked at the one who had just denied him with love unspeakable and tender still.
iwillgonow: Peter was now humble enough to understand the words of Christ, and without further questioning, the once restless, boastful, self-confident disciple became subdued and contrite. He followed his Lord indeed--the Lord he had denied. The thought that Christ had not denied and rejected him was to Peter a light and comfort and blessing. He felt that he could be crucified from choice, but it must be with his head downward. And he who was so close a partaker of Christ's sufferings will also be a partaker of His glory when He shall "sit upon the throne of his glory."
iwillgonow: Peter was also crucified, years after Jesus.
iwillgonow: But felt he should not have the honor to be crucified the same way the Son of God was, and was instead crucified upside-down.
jello13091: How many of the disciples were crucified?
jello13091: Wow
iwillgonow: I don't know.
iwillgonow: John the Baptist was beheaded, alive.
jello13091: I remember that.
iwillgonow: John died in exile on the isle of Patmos.
iwillgonow: Most of the disciples died for Jesus.
iwillgonow: If not all.
jello13091: Ok.
iwillgonow: And they have their reward.
jello13091: Yeah
iwillgonow: And nothing, neither angels nor principalities nor powers nor demons...can take it away from them.
iwillgonow: God has their souls in His hand, and who can pluck it from Him?
jello13091: No one.
08/11/01
iwillgonow: Ever had the flu?
psycho314t: yeah
iwillgonow: I've had it one time, the week long version.
psycho314t: same
iwillgonow: Was in bed for 4-5 days straight.
iwillgonow: I got up to go to the bathroom, and felt dizzy and lightheaded as usual.
iwillgonow: Walked about 7 feet and just passed out.
psycho314t: yup
iwillgonow: When I came to, I was lying on the floor in the hall.
iwillgonow: Just thought of that for some reason.
iwillgonow: Only time in my life I've passed out.
iwillgonow: After the last temptation from Satan and his departure, Jesus passed out from 6 weeks of hunger, along with His strain mentally.
iwillgonow: He feel to the ground and was like a dead man.
iwillgonow: I know how it feels to pass out, but not from 6 weeks of hunger or any fathomable kind of agony like He had then.
iwillgonow: Longest I've ever gone without food was...
iwillgonow: Maybe 3-4 days.
iwillgonow: And I could hardly walk.
iwillgonow: I just tried fasting once as a kid, probably 13 years old.
iwillgonow: Went 3 days or so.
iwillgonow: A friend came over and we went to his house, down the street.
iwillgonow: I walked about 30 feet and had to rest on one knee.
iwillgonow: And gave it up.
iwillgonow: 40 days...man.
psycho314t: man... no, actually, i didnt pass out from the flu.. came close, but i did pass out a few weeks ago.. i nearly choked on something i was eating, & it hurt real bad.. i went out like a light. but ive never been w/o some kind of food for more than prolly 36 hours.. even when im sick, i eat a couple of slices of fruit every day... i cant imagine... 6 weeks..
iwillgonow: Moses went 40 days without food on the mount, but EgW explains that, saying the enveloping of God's (Jesus') glory on the mount supernaturally sustained him; It was not so for Jesus.
psycho314t: oh, i remember that one.. about moses
iwillgonow: Jesus was utterly alone.
iwillgonow: No comforting angels.
iwillgonow: No presence of God.
iwillgonow: Just a desolate wilderness, and Satan and his army.
psycho314t: i never realized that
iwillgonow: What He took hold of most dearly was the assurance given by God at His baptisim.
iwillgonow: He remembered constantly the token of God's favor and it lifted His spirits.
psycho314t: yeah, i read that
iwillgonow: Very precious to Him.
iwillgonow: And from this book Confrontation, it was not just 3 quick temptations.
psycho314t: its amazing that He never faltered. He didnt even consider satans temptations
psycho314t: yeah, im reading it
iwillgonow: It was grueling for hours.
iwillgonow: Satan bickering and moaning and bagering.
iwillgonow: Talking talking talking.
iwillgonow: Jesus just stood quiet and didn't reply.
iwillgonow: Just took all the mockery.
iwillgonow: He knew that it would not be wise to get into a conversation with Satan.
iwillgonow: Because if Satan could persuade perfect, holy angels, then now would not be a good time to argue with him in this manly, sinful state.
iwillgonow: Which is smart.
iwillgonow: I wondered why He never just blasted Satan's arguements away in a debate.
iwillgonow: That's why.
iwillgonow: Satan is too good.
iwillgonow: He can deceive the perfect angels to turn against their CREATOR and their Chief General.
iwillgonow: So as a mortal, finite, man with the inherited condition of sin for 4,000 years...
iwillgonow: it's not a good strategy move to debate with him.
iwillgonow: So He didn't.
iwillgonow: And reading that, I got why.
psycho314t: yeah, i saw that too.. it was very smart
iwillgonow: Jesus never entertained the temptations Satan placed before Him.
iwillgonow: He let His eyes rest on the picture of the glory of the kingdoms of the world for less than a moment, then turned away and would not look.
iwillgonow: Wouldn't entertain the temptation.
iwillgonow: Which is like the temptation to steal coming into your mind, which you cannot prevent the suggestions, but then you immediately remove it, and do not entertain it, and this you can do.
iwillgonow: If you don't even entertain a temptation, there's no way you can act on it.
psycho314t: yeah
08/29/01
iwillgonow: The wine which Christ provided for the feast, and that which He gave to the disciples as a symbol of His own blood, was the pure juice of the grape. To this the prophet Isaiah refers when he speaks of the new wine "in the cluster," and says, "Destroy it not; for a blessing is in it." Isa. 65:8. {DA 149.3}
It was Christ who in the Old Testament gave the warning to Israel, "Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise." Prov. 20:1. And He Himself provided no such beverage.
iwillgonow: Behold, the answer.
iwillgonow: Given at 2:20 in the morning; there is no wrong time for revelation.
iwillgonow: It was grape juice, both times. We have our proof to back our faith.
psycho314t: and how many times did we read over those same 2 paragraphs...
